Saturday, December 10, 2005

Before the Fall

Story #22, in which an evangelist offers his pitch for the bosom of Abraham.

To hear the story, interrupt the wedding before someone makes a big mistake.











If you want to read the appropriate passage, talk to my sister (right).

After great consideration, I have chosen to cross-post this story at Doug Drones On.

48 comments:

AP3 said...

Tap tap, tap tap.... No pressure!

Minka said...

It is 14.28 here adn I am not amused!

Tan Lucy Pez said...

It's okay darlin'. It's only 9:40 TLP time.

Hope you're having fun with the little prince-who-will-be-king, and the rest of the family.

dddragon said...

*ahem*

yeah, yeah, have fun.

Doug said...

You guys! That was a great illustration for this story.

Fred said...

I used the TLP method of listening and reading this one. Well done.

Did anyone in yuor family have a word or two with the preacher? Or, did you move him out of harm's way after the event.

Minka said...

Just lovely. I´d also like to know what happened to the priest afterwards! And I do feel it is time to update the bible a little...I mean the original story tellers are dead by now, but I am sure we can find another fantasy writer in a close vicinity. I give you some "subordinate to man"...

AP3 said...

Geez. I'm sorry, but what a jerk that minister was.

Well told. My knuckles are white, too.

Sar said...

Excellent story. But I don't know why you felt the need to intervene should Jenna or Mama gone after the priest. I think it would've been perfectly justified. What's more, as a groomsman in your sister's wedding party, weren't you there to stand up for the bride? ;)

dddragon said...

I think you would've had fun with my wedding. I don't remember a whole lot, but apparently the audience thought it was funny to hear the Catholic priest talk about "two becoming one" and my UU minister (woman) saying "remember that you are individuals..."

Notice no one has a definition here? Not me, either, too.

And doug, nothing happens here until I read your post. Now I can get into the shower.

Tan Lucy Pez said...

Yes, we women did illustrate your point well: We're in charge here. Don't touch that mouse.

Homily,n., A dangerous thing to deliver sincerely if you are sincerely stupid. See People who have trouble communicating should just shut up.

You have some seriously interesting stories! You guys.

Doug said...

Fred, a black van from the Baptist Education Terrestrial Association (BETA) came and spirited him away.

Haha, Monika. Not a big submitter either, are you?

Aral, if I'd known you then it might have been fun to have him officiate at your ceremony. "A she-husband is like a Zamboni"

Sar, I'm doubtful that women are cursed for asserting themselves, but I'm pretty sure the murder of a fool is a sin.

Make thyself clean, Dddragon.

mireille said...

Oh, Doug. Did we mention your blog won a MacArthur? And you have $250,000 to spend any way you wish? Because you're a genius? xoxo
ps I have already made my very strong feelings known about the nature of many who-lead-their-flocks. *yes, ap3, not all*

Nony Mitchell said...

I am thinking that the 80 foot plunge wouldn't have been long enough for my liking....

Anonymous said...

As Jenna's father I can testify to the fact the story continued. Showing the humor and intelligence that makes him such a highly valued family member, Jim sought me out, and told me "I won't try to enforce it." Stepping right up to my opportunity to provide wise counsel, I bunted. "Not and live," said I. In any event, what I see is a mutually respectful and supportive relationship. [All questions of dominance were resolved 1 year and 1 day ago, with the birth of King Stevie I of Portland - who immediately took charge.]

Mama said...

Oh, Dougie, Dougie, Dougie: You didn't mention that the idiot minister was officiating at a wedding PAID FOR in part by the culturally Jewish-athiest mother, fallen away Catholic step-father and agnostic father and that that the only thing that kept this same mother from saying something really appropriate to this same minister was the fact that this same mother had spent months trying to find the most beautiful, flowing, drop-dead dress which she succeed in doing and therefore would not let the rush of blood spewing from her tongue which was bitten down upon and chewed at for at least 10 miinutes during this guys comparsion of her only, precious, perfect but taught-to-be-tough daughter to a VW (not an Audi)!was that this same dress would have turned purple from the blood rush!

Doug said...

OK. OK, TLP. This was my last post.

Why, that's wonderful news, Mireille. Can I spend it on perfume?

That was the real problem, Spiritdancer. Justice demanded a scaffold.

Hey, Pops! You were wise to teach your sons and son-in-law cowardice.

Mama, I was trying to remember Audi v. VW. You're right. I'll cancel the Assisted Living placement.

Miz BoheMia said...

Wow Mama, if your daughter is half the woman you seem to be she must be an awesome lady! Here's to both your strength and your daughter's in the presence of such ignorant rhetoric! I don't know if I would have had the self-control you both had. My body would have spasmed out of control, hands flailing, swatting at bothersome priests until the 80-ft fall would have taken care of the pesky problem! Oy!

Doug, awesome story! You have all us women ready to commit murder! What have you done to us!?!?! ;-)

LeesahEm. said...

Pssshhhhhaawwwww, that preacher had it dead on. Nothing fufills a woman like serving a man. It's what life's all about...

Tan Lucy Pez said...

I listened to the story again. It seems this minister placed his wife under a pedestal. Or under the gas pedal. I'm having trouble deciding.

mireille said...

If it's for me, yeah. *an itemized list will be provided* And I really like your mother's description of her daughter. That's love. xoxo

Doug said...

Miz Bohemia, what I've done is direct all of your anger away from me. No commment on where I picked up that skill.

Masil, I've noticed how prominent that is among your ambitions. Especially after yesterdays curtsy.

Oddly, TLP, I never actually met his wife.

Yes it is, Mireille. I look forward to receivingq your list There's vanilla something on it, I bet.

Jamie Dawn said...

The Love Chapter is one of my favs of the Bible. It gives us all something to aspire to, though I know perfect love is hard to emulate.
A woman is a lot like a car; that minister was right. If you want your car to run smoothly for years and years, you better take good care of it. Neglected cars tend to leave you stranded.

Minka said...

No Doug, I´d rather poke my eyeball out and shoot myself in the foot than submit :)

weirsdo said...

Good story, except someone should have interrupted the --oops I forgot, no profanity. The "submit" line is very popular down here, let me tell you. I have had (unmarried) female Composition students go on about what a wonderful experience submission is at great masochistic length.
Before Dr. Weirsdo and I got married, his converted Catholic sister sent us religious books on marital happiness. Husbands were encouraged to reward wives like dogs so the wives would come scampering to meet the husbands when they (the husbands) came home after a hard day's work.

Belinda said...

HA! You know, both of those passages were read at my wedding. Here is my take on the whole Ephesians thing: If a man takes on the Biblical mantle as "head of the family," and performs it accordingly...well, I have no problem "submitting" to that. Truly. In my experience, it is only in instances where the man is not fulfilling that role, that the woman, consciously or not, steps in to fill the gap. And that probably works for a whole lot of families, so don't flame me. MY family certainly hasn't grown into the scriptural model yet. My parents, now, in their last years together before my dad was called home--they had it knocked.

That post had a lot of 'l's in it, and the 'l' key is off my computer. So every time you see that letter, it means I have copied and pasted it from somewhere. So if for nothing else, appreciate my efforts for that!

Belinda said...

Oh, and the "HA!" was actuall me laughing at Doug's funny story, not scorning anyone else's post!

Doug said...

Jamie Dawn, thou hast said it.

Monika, it shouldn't come to that. I wouldn't think anyone who knew you would expect it of you.

Weirsdo, I've seen some of that in your novella.

Belinda, I don't think anyone will flame you and no-one should. Personally (my "I" works prodigiously, thank you) I don't question the scriptures, but I am often suspicious as to why one passage is selected over another. I think everyone present including the other Baptists thought the car metaphor was degrading (you'd have to hear the whole thing) and the purpose of his reading that passage having agreed not to was to define the marriage not to sanctify it. Regarding the roles of spouses and what the passage from Ephesians means, as someone who never married, I humbly submit to those of you who have.

Also, Belinda, I think you're magnificent for offering us your perspective when it's so clearly counter to most of the other opinions here. I thank you.

And "HA" yourself.

Belinda said...

Yeah, I would taker rather serious umbrage at being compared to an old car.

Anyone who knows me would tell you that I am not "submissive," in the common understanding of the word. The only way I can express what I was trying to say (if at all) is to say that while I am a control freak--always have been--once I DID learn to give up some of that I was richly rewarded. It was like someone lifted a burden; a sense of relief not to HAVE to be the one that micro-manages every last thing. That was just a huge personal thing for me.

And our marriage (the first for both of us) came late in life, compared to a lot of folks--we were both 34, and had lived alone a lot of years. Plus, we had some serious, serious issues that plagued us for a long time and affected every aspect of our marriage. We're very fortunate and blessed to have weathered those storms and come through to the other side.

If you ask my husband if I am a "submissive wife," (read that book, BTW, and do NOT recommend it, at least not in whole) he would most likely---heck, I'll do it now; He's right here watching Jacksonville/Indiana football:

"Am I a submissive wife?"

"NO."

"NO? Just like that? Never?"

"No." (considers, cracks up laughing)

"How can you say that?"

Alex gestures with hands as if "presenting" me as evidence for his position, making "duh" face.

Oh, well. They say that perception is the only reality, so I guess I was way off! Ha. If only he knew. ;-)

mireille said...

"surrendered wife" It's "surrendered." Like the enemy surrendered. Like "I had her surrounded and she surrendered." Now let's try to transpose that onto the car metaphor. The car, when not receiving regular lube, oil and filters, "surrendered" in the middle of the freeway; the wife, when not receiving adequate recognition, gifts and sexual favors, absolutely refused to surrender. See, doesn't work. *for a complete explanation of this post, see my new book: "Doug's Blog and How I Learned to Fully Participate."

Doug said...

Belinda I think the freedom to mock your husband over the internet is the essence of female empowerment. There's a theological point much too deep for this site (you listening, Aral?) that among the things that are consistent across the New Testament is the subversion of power of one person over another. In any case, I think letting your husband watch the Colts/Panthers is enough humility for today. Go on and make him clean something.

Mireille, hahaha. Can I get a signed copy?

Alice: In Wonderland or Not said...

I personally think it's sickening while still humorous.I wouldn’t have been laughing though. I personally think they showed a lot of patience with that loser preacher. Subversion of any kind in either direction is not really appealing to me.

I can’t think of a definition that is not nasty so I will abstain.

Belinda said...

Marielle, that's right. "The Surrendered Wife." I really understood what she was getting at, but gosh--it's an insulting (to men) and unrealistic premise. And when you get right down to it, it's just another form of manipulation.

The idea, as I remember it, is that men are weak, because we, women, have made them that way. BAD women! Bad for being strong and capable. Anyhoo, it's kind of a "fake it 'til you make it" thing, where you, the wife, start behaving *as if* your husband were all the things that you wish he were in the husband department (judgemental, much?), and that sooner or later, he will puff up with pride at your confidence and trust in him, and *become* that man.

There are just so many holes there, and so many women (and men) I know who wish it were that simple.

A much better approach to "managing" (as a euphemism for "manipulating") people, is Karen Pryor's "Don't Shoot The Dog." I am not EVEN kidding. It's brilliant. Skinner was right on--there's nothing we can't accomplish through operant conditioning, given any animal with at least the brains of a chicken! ;-)

Hmmmmm...how best to "shape" the behavior of baking me some cookies?

Belinda said...

My problem with marriage was that I waited so long to do it, I had pretty much become the man I wanted to marry. :-P

Doug said...

Alice, my sister and brother-in-law wanted me to add that the preacher while lousy at the ceremony was a very good pastoral counselor. I guess that helped everyone be patient. That, and the sedatives I slipped both my mother and sister before the ceremony as a preventive. Oh and you have special dispensation to be vile here, should you wish it.

Belinda, I absolutely identify with the comment about late marriage. In my 20s I could wait and by my mid-thirties I wasn't sure for what. By the way, I've seen your picture. I'm not sure I understand how you married five years older than your current age and have a four-year-old daughter.

Belinda said...

Doug, put down the:
a.) wine
b.) mushrooms
c.) airplane glue

OR

d.) step away from the computer and get some rest.

;-)

We were 34 when we got married, which was 5 years ago. Isabella just turned 3 in October. I am currently 39.

Doug said...

Belinda, if you're going to post 10-year-old pictures of yourself, that's fine, but please don't criticize my drugs.

Seriously, I never thought you were in your 30s.

Belinda said...

HAA!!! I feel 80 sometimes! Have you seen the pics of my mother and grandmother, posted recently? Thanksgiving posts, I think. That should give a clue. If what you say is true, then maybe I inherited those genes! I can hope.

Anonymous said...

Oh ..... Am I the only one with a special dispensation?

I hope so because I paid dearly for it.

weirsdo said...

Just a footnote follow-up on Belinda's comments--evolutionary biologists are highly skeptical of many behaviorist claims, and I bet a survey of wives married 5 years or more would support the evolutionary biologists.

I would recommend Are You an Emotional Junky? but it's not a real book ; )

Anonymous said...

That anonnymous was me and that book described above sounds like the stupidest thing ever written.

Alice: In Wonderland or Not said...

jeus doug shoot me will you.

Doug said...

Belinda, you know perfectly well dogs don't lie, although we do hide bones.

Yes, anonymalice. You've earned it.

Weirsdo, I can't read those books. Too conflict-avoidant.

Haha, Alice. I wouldn't shoot you for all the tea in China but sometimes e;ectroshock helps me focus. Just sayin'.

Ariella said...

wow, what a fabulously interesting set of comments on this post!
Love it.

Everyone around here knows their place, servant to the dog.

Tan Lucy Pez said...

Wait! I'm not surrendering to no dog no how.

You have to get up earlier than that doug-dog gets up to put me in my place.

Doug said...

Wasn't that great, Ariella? Even Waking Ambrose can be topical. Wonder which house the moon's in.

"Humans, submit yourselves to your dogs as, well just do it" Walela 5:49, King Willie Version

Little Fresh said...

Oh my, what controversy. Seems like there is a mountain being made out of a molehill here. While I nearly threw him into the river below when he started with the cartoon, I was pretty darn amused by the time he compared me to a VW. Who wants a boring wedding without a story to tell? That is one heck of a story, especially if you know me. As my uncle Jimmy said, "all Jenna is going to submit is a list of demands." And keep in mind, whatever the pastor said at my wedding is irrelevant as it didn't change the relationship I have with my husband and best friend - one of love, mutual respect, constant amusement, witty banter (at least we think so) and that feeling every so often that we married the most annoying person in the world.

Doug said...

Hey, Ma! I think they're gone but thanks. Clearly, everything you say is true. And I heard ya.